Romanization System

I know that the 1960′s course from the Defense Language Institute for 台山話 uses a really old romanization system.  And I know it gave me a lot of trouble at first.  So I made this write-up to:

• help explain some of the differences between the romanization scheme in this textbook and the Yale and jyutping romanization schemes used in Cantonese
• help explain some of the patterns I observed in the similarities between Cantonese and Hoisanwa

The romanization system is really old (like 1960′s old, to be exact).  I had to do the first 4 lessons of drills several times before I really got the hang of the romanization system.  So I thought writing a short guide on this might help.

I have learned Cantonese through romanization (Yale, and a little 粵拼 jyutping), but I have not learned Mandarin nor hanyu pinyin.  So my advice is coming from that background.

Tones

Tone Numbering System

For those familiar with Yale and 粵拼 jyutping, the 6 tones in Cantonese are:

Tone Name	Tone Numbering System
High Level (and High Falling)	1
Medium Rising	2
Medium Level	3
Low Falling	4
Low Rising	5
Low Level	6

This is shown at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese_phonology#Tones

An Important Point: There is actually a 7th tone of High Falling, but these two main romanization schemse of Yale and 粵拼 jyutping do not make a distinction between the High Level and High Falling tones.  This is an important point, because in 台山話 Hoisanwa, these are treated as two distinct tones, and it’s important to hear and speak them as distinct tones.  I know this personally still gives me a lot of trouble.

Since I really like this number system for tones, I denote the High Falling tone as 1`.

So in my own system, I use the following as tone numbers for 台山話 Hoisanwa:

Tone Name	My Tone System	Textbook Tone Diacritics
High Level	1	no mark
High Falling	1`	^ above letter
Medium Level	3	` above letter
Low Falling	4	- above letter and . under
Low Level	6	- above letter

Comparison to Cantonese

Of the 6 Cantonese tones, Hoisanwa has all of the same tones, except for the 2 rising tones.  Then Hoisanwa additionally makes a distinction between the High Level tone # 1 and the High Falling tone # 1`.

Tone Sandhi

In addition to the 5 tones mentioned in the previous section, Hoisanwa has some tone changes.  I am still trying to figure out when these tone changes occur.  In the textbook, they are marked by adding  an asterisk * after the syllable, in addition to the regular tone diacritics.

I’m even having trouble accurately pronouncing these tones.  They seem to be that you should perform the tone as normal, but then half way through the syllable, you start to make it a rising tone instead.

This is explained further here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taishanese#Tones in the section on “changed tones”.  Although, what they call a “Medium Falling” (31) tone has sounded to me more like a “High Falling” (51) tone.

Similarities to Cantonese

There are no hard and fast formulas for converting between the tone of a word in Cantonese and it’s corresponding tone in Hoisanwa.  But if I know the tone in Cantonese, I can occasionally guess the tone in Hoisanwa.  Here are the “rules” I have noticed.  But I just want to say again, there are almost as many exceptions to the “rule” as there are examples of it.

Cantonese Tone	Hoisanwa Tone	Example
2 – Medium Rising	1 – High Level	“to speak” : gong2 -> kong1 , “to give” : bei2 -> pi1
6 – Low Level	1` – High Falling	“to be” : hai6 -> haai1` , “side” bin6 -> ping1`
	1`* – High Dipping
	3 – Medium Level
	3* – Medium Rising
	4 – Low Falling
	4* – Low Dipping
4 – Low Falling	6 – Low Level	“not” : m4 -> m6 , “person” : yan4 -> ngin6
	6* – Low Rising

Syllable Initials

Table of Hoisanwa initials:

	unaspirated	aspirated	nasals	fricatives	semi-vowels
labials	p	p’	m	f
dentals	t	t’	n	hl	l
palatals	ch	ch’		s	y
velar	k	k’	ng	h
labialized-velar	kw	k’w			w

Table of Cantonese initials:

	unaspirated	aspirated	nasals	fricatives	semi-vowels
labials	b	p	m	f
dentals	d	t	n		l
palatals	j	ch		s	y
velar	g	k	ng	h
labialized-velar	gw	kw			w

So there are 19 Cantonese initials and 20 Hoisanwa initials.  Hoisanwa has all of the Cantonese initials plus an extra lh initial, explained pretty well here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_lateral_fricative

I had trouble with this lh sound for a long time.  At first I thought it was a cross between a hard c sound (or “k” sound) and a “l” sound.  Then I went through a phase where I thought it was like the German “ch” sound and a “l” sound.  Now I’m more sure that it’s somewhere between a “th” sound and a “l” sound.  I kept asking my wife which of these it was, but she had a hard time describing it too.  So I guess my best advice to those trying to learn it is to just try out all 3 of these sounds and see which sounds to you more like the recordings.

Comparison to Cantonese – Romanization

Except for the lh initial, Hoisanwa has the same initials as Cantonese.  The only difficulty is that the Romanization system is very old.  So for “b” sounds they use the initial p, and for “p” sounds they use the initial p’.  Similarly for other unaspirated and aspirated initials in the table above.

Comparison to Cantonese – Pronunciation

As in the previous section, there are some really common patterns I have noticed, but these are by no means formulas that can be used to convert from Cantonese to Hoisanwa.

Perhaps the most noticeable are the following:

pattern	example character	Cantonese	Hoisanwa
ch -> t’	錯	cho3	t’o3
	餐	chaan1	t’aan3
t -> h	頭	tau4	haau6
	台	toi4	hoi6
	睇	tai2	haai1
j -> t	最	jeui3	tooi1`
	走	jau2	taau1
	就	jau6	tiu1`
d -> <null>	對	deui	ooi3
	大	daai6	aai1`
	電	din6	ing1`
s -> lh	先	sin1	lhing3
	洗	sai2	lhaai1

NOTE: Remember in the above that a t initial in Hoisanwa is actually a “d” sound, and the t’ initial is actually the “t” sound.

Syllable Finals

Table of Hoisanwa finals:

	aa	ia	e	i	ie	o	oo	u
<null>	aa		e	i		o	oo
i	aai		ei			oi	ooi
u	aau	iau		iu
m	aam			im	iem
n	aan			in	ien	on	oon
ng	aang	iang		ing		ong		ung
p	aap			ip	iep
t	aat			it	iet	ot	oot
k	aak	iak		ik		ok		uk

Table of Cantonese finals:

	aa	a	e	eu	i	o	u	yu
<null>	aa		e	eu	i	o	u	yu
i	aai	ai	ei	eui		oi	ui
u	aau	au			iu	ou
m	aam	am			im
n	aan	an		eun	in	on	un	yun
ng	aang	ang	eng	eung	ing	ong	ung
p	aap	ap			ip
t	aat	at		eut	it	ot	ut	yut
k	aak	ak	ek	euk	ik	ok	uk

So there are 51 Cantonese finals, but only 38 Hoisanwa finals.  The differences are:

• no eu, eui, eun, eung, eut, and euk finals
• no short “a” finals, only long “aa” finals
• no yu, yun, and yut finals
• a few new finals such as iau, iang, iak, iem, ien, iep, and iet

Similarities and (Subtle) Differences

At first, I thought that the “iak” final in Hoisanwa was pronounced identically to the “ek” final in Cantonese.  Similarly for other pairs, such as “iang” / “eng” and “iem” / “im”.  However, there are slight differences in the pronunciation, so be careful to listen carefully to the drills for these.

On the other hand, as far as I can tell the “oo” finals such as oo, ooi, oon, and oot appear to be exactly the same pronunciation as the finals u, ui, un, and ut in Cantonese.

Comparison to Cantonese

Just as above, there are no definite formulas for predicting the Hoisanwa final based on the Cantonese final.  However, here are some patterns I have noticed.

eui -> ooi

I have seen several examples of this, such as:

Character	Yale Romanization	Hoisanwa Romanization
去	heui3	hooi3
句	geui3	gooi3
對	deui3	ooi3
最	jeui3	tooi3

short “a” finals -> “oo” finals

Character	Yale Romanization	Hoisanwa Romanization
瞓	fan3	foon3
不	bat1	poot1
行	hang4	haang6
北	bak1	baak1

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